Talk:Church of the Holy Light/@comment-4681356-20150902170325/@comment-5781280-20150902192319

Let's all be honest and candid. This conversation has nothing whatsoever to do with a genuine desire to provide "accurate representation of a lore group." In truth, this has everything to do with the fact that Stromheart has been IC and OOC ostracized from the generally accepted Holy community that has formed over the many years on this server, something which took place LONG before it came out that he was a racist asshole. I also find it interesting to note that your desire to "be more involved in the wiki" happens to have surface mere days after the massive controversy involving your guild master's BANNING from this website.

You are the #2 officer in . You are Stromheart's right hand both IC and OOC when it comes to managing his guild. Do you really believe that the administrators and users of this wiki are so stupid to believe that Stromheart's ban has absolutely nothing to do with your unexplained sudden interest in becoming active here? Please.

Now, sit and observe how I shine a light on your blatant dishonesty. Let us begin with your thesis:

Sveela: I'm simply suggesting this at the benefit of the wikia and people who do want to RP church stuff that they can do so in a manner where ****pages with lore organization names**** are not riddled with other people's fanon.

Interesting. Considering that you are part of a Silver Hand paladin guild, I wonder why it is that you put so much time in effort in a disambiguation of the Church of the Holy Light page '''instead of first attending to the page named "Order of the Silver Hand." Which clearly references a number of fanon organizations, and which even lists the Silver Hand Chapter at the top of those fanon groups.''' You haven't even edited the page once. So, your whole talk of, "o, this is just the first thing I happened across" holds about as much water as a bucket without a bottom. Your action is targeted and it has been made with methodical precision. Let us see how:

http://moon-guard.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Master_of_the_Silver_Hand

Ahh, Grand Master of the Silver Hand. A great place to start off, right? O, and just so everyone reading this is absolute clear, Stromheart (remember, Sveela's GM!) happens to also have an IC claim to being the Grand Master of the Silver Hand. I've seen Stromheart attempt to pass this off by saying he is only the "Grand-Master of the Arch-Chapter" but in virtually every event the SHC hosts, he's always introduced using the former. That's dishonest, and it's dishonest because everyone knows you would be laughed out of the building if Stromheart tried to make it public. You know that your guild fanon treats him as the Grand Master of the entire Silver Hand, so don't even try to equivocate on that matter. In fact, I'll make you a challenge:

Can you declare, definitively, YES or NO only, whether or not Stromheart claims to be the Grand Master of the Silver Hand?

(For proof on the matter, one need only read:

http://moon-guard.wikia.com/wiki/Tenevus_Stromheart

Listed herein are numerous references to how he considers himself to be grand master. He even has a picture with the caption: "Grand Master Tenevus Stromheart of the Silver Hand.")

I digress. Why is this Grand Master page important? Why is any of this important? It's important because Sveela has unintentionally given us a portal into the way he thinks on this issue, and how he is systematically whitewashing pages in order to lay the foundation for Stromheart's IC claim to Grand Master.

Let's look at the language edits in the history. "Semantics," as Sveela notes in her summaries.

http://moon-guard.wikia.com/index.php?title=Grand_Master_of_the_Silver_Hand&diff=104170&oldid=103799

You will notice that Sveela took the phrase "Though the Grand Master operates closely with the Archbishop of the Holy Church" and edited it to be ''"Though the Grand Master can choose to operate closely with the Archbishop of the Holy Church." ''

Weird? Right? Why would she be interested in trying to subtely change the language to make it sound like the Grand Master is more independent of the church? What possible reason could the #2 officer to a guy who claims to be Grand Master (and who was banned from the wiki for racism) possibly want with editing this language in records to another fanon organization that has cast him out numerous times?

Maybe it's just a coincidence, right?

Nope.

http://moon-guard.wikia.com/index.php?title=Grand_Master_of_the_Silver_Hand&diff=104493&oldid=104170

O dear... What's this? A different edit made several days later changing the original language of:

''"the position holder [Grand Master] is free to make decisions that may go against initial orders." to "the position holder [Grand Master] is free to make decisions that may go against initial desires and orders." ''

Sounds to me like someone is very interested in making sure the "Grand Master" is independent of the Church. Combine this with your devious attempts to redirect links from fanon organizations that have 1.) been around for years, 2.) your GM was a part of up until the point he had a massive IC and OOC melt down and was kicked out and 3.) your GM completely supported when he thought that they would make him Grand Master and what do you have? What's all this mean at the end of the day?

You are attempting to whitewash years of server history because your GM fucked up. You want to essentially backdate and rewrite server history to pretend like 3-4 years of server history didn't happen just because you know the majority of the server will always laugh at the idea of Tenevus Stromheart being Grand Master of the Silver Hand. In fact, you are so upset by this, that your only recourse is to attempt to pull down other organizations on this community with you. You are so absolutely invested in your own guild, you want it to work so badly that you are willing to ignore the atrocious actions of your guild master in favor of this bull.

BE HONEST.

You want Stromheart to be the Grand Master of the Silver Hand. That's perfectly all right. Put it on his wiki page, put it on your guild wiki page, you can even edit a subsection of the Grand Master of the Silver Hand page to say that he claims the title. No one is going to care. But this sneaky backdoor way of trying to tear down the church just so you can prop up your claim by using nefarious rerouting tools to keep users from accessing the Church fanon? That's unacceptable.

Now, to add icing on this cake. Let's show how when it comes to "clearly dilleniating fanon from canon" how much of a hypocrite Sveela and the SHC are:

http://moon-guard.wikia.com/wiki/Declaration_of_Unity

Let us notice that the link entitled "Silver Hand" takes us directly to this page:

http://moon-guard.wikia.com/wiki/Arch-Chapter_of_Stormwind

O shit... Wait, according to Sveela's own logic, shouldn't that link be taking us to some sort of blanket copy/past wowpedia page? O wait, is it just me or does the Arch-Chapter page contain the quote: "The Arch-Chapter of Stormwind is the authoritative body of the Silver Hand. The current Grand Master of the Chapter is Sir Tenevus Stromheart."

In conclusion, Sveela's nonsense here has absolutely nothing to do with some sort of legitimate concern over giving players choices. It has everything to do with trying to give her racist scumbag BANNED guild leader another alternative to find some ounce of legitimacy so he can prop up his own claim. This community has been around for years, these pages have been around for years, this RP has been around for years, and here you are trying to sell us the snake oil that none of this has anything to do with the fact that Stromheart was tossed out?

Get out of here.